Jun 29, 2016

Suppose for a minute the miners and the software developers disagreed strongly on some important decision. What do you think would happen?

* Would the software developers suck it up and follow the miners?

* Would the pool of software developers shrink because various developers do not find implementing the will of the miners to be an enjoyable hobby and/or job anymore?

* Would the miners hire new software developers to replace the ones that leave?

* Would there be a fork?

I don't know, but pretending that "the protocol is decentralised, the technology is completely agnostic to anything but the will of the majority" is ignoring the realpolitik of this kind of situation.

Saying that Ethereum implements the will of the majority is like saying American democracy implements the will of the majority. Sort of? But meanwhile there are a lot of empirical studies [0] demonstrating that the will of the people has little to no influence over American public policy. A democratic financial system is much more corruptible than a democratic political system.

[0] https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/fi...

Jun 05, 2016

Representative democracy in one of the more well known forms (America's) is demonstrably an oligarchy: https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/fi...

Jun 02, 2016

> governments should still be viewed as instruments of the voters to a significant extent.

At least in the US at the federal level, certainly not.[1]

[1]: https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/fi...

May 21, 2016

> The representatives are probably accurately representing the balance of power in US society, which is weighted towards economic/financial interests.

Obviously you are assuming that I'm pulling my statements out of thin air (or some other place where the sun don't shine :D ).

Here's a paper from Princeton University that essentially says that public opinion as almost ZERO effect on US policy:

https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/fi...

May 19, 2016

Not only accurate, empirically proven[0].

[0]https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/fi...

May 02, 2016

You can vote for someone that says they'll appoint that Fed chair. And even then the Fed chair could have reason to implement policy that is contrary to your interests.

In fact, the status quo is that your opinion and vote for that person is ignored. I'm reminded of the Princeton/Northwestern study suggested Congress passes laws that run contrary to the will of the people ~90% of the time.

So what's the value in your tenuous link when inputs are sent straight to /dev/null

https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/fi...

Apr 11, 2016

I don't think it's so much goal post moving as a lot of us never claimed it buys elections. My assertion has always been that generally speaking if you want to be competitive politically you need to scratch the backs of elites to get the proper funding to be relevant in elections. It's not an absolute, rather that there is excessive corporate influence that undermines the political process

A couple of studies from Princeton https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/fi... https://www.princeton.edu/~mgilens/idr.pdf

A biased write up on some of the findings, along with references to other sources at the end

https://represent.us/action/theproblem-4/

Apr 06, 2016

> Low unemployment, high gdp per capita, high household income, high human development index rating, etc.

Not true, real unemployment (ie including homeless people, people that are unable to work, etc.) is quite high and rising. Many people are just completely excluded from the 'official' unemployment statistics. Mean GDP per capita is fairly high BUT median, which is a much more important metric of wealth inequality, is quite low and decreasing relative to mean. Not sure why you listed household income and GDP per capita as different things even though they are basically the same for this purpose... and high human development index says nothing about revolt, in fact higher educated and well-read people that are economically disenfranchised tend to be more outspoken and interested in the wealth gap.

> And not because of "the rich" but because the feel good socialism they can't pay for is destroying a generation of wealth, work, and prosperity.

80% of the American public is essentially completely politically disenfranchised, for most people in the US the net income adjusted for inflation and increasing costs is decreasing.

https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/fi...

> And not because of "the rich" but because the feel good socialism they can't pay for is destroying a generation of wealth, work, and prosperity.

Greece and Spain are far from 'feel good socialism' compared to countries that are much closer such as Germany, Norway, Sweden, Denmark, where quality of life and happiness is regularly rated as higher than the US.

> Gee, maybe low regulatory environments, easy access to investment cash, entrepreneur culture, freedom of speech, honest elections, a real judiciary, capital protections, etc matter to an economy? Naww, keep ignoring the facts.

Literally none of those things conflicts with socialism, socialism actually helps many of those things. But I guess you heard the good ol 'socialism bad hurr durr' on fox news or whatever and suddenly feel that is a basis to justify your misguided beliefs.

> Gee, maybe low regulatory environments

Yeah, that worked out magnificently in 2008.

Mar 26, 2016

"There's nothing inherently wrong with a lobbyist. They're there to help inform representatives. "

You are naive.

"Intended as an internal document. Good reading to understand the nature of rich democracies and the fact that the common people are not allowed to play a role."

Crisis of democracy

http://trilateral.org/download/doc/crisis_of_democracy.pdf

http://www.amazon.com/Crisis-Democracy-Governability-Democra...

Our brains are much worse at reality and thinking than thought. Science on reasoning:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ

Manufacturing consent (book)

http://www.amazon.com/Manufacturing-Consent-Political-Econom...

Protectionism for the rich and big business by state intervention, radical market interference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHj2GaPuEhY#t=349

Manufacturing consent:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwU56Rv0OXM

https://vimeo.com/39566117

Testing theories of representative government

https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/fi...

Democracy Inc

http://www.amazon.com/Democracy-Incorporated-Managed-Inverte...

Mar 18, 2016

Then we should provide context about america and whether it is really a democracy

Our brains are much worse at reality and thinking than thought. Science on reasoning:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ

Overthrowing other peoples governments

http://williamblum.org/essays/read/overthrowing-other-people...

Testing theories of representative government

https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/fi...

Democracy Inc

http://www.amazon.com/Democracy-Incorporated-Managed-Inverte...

"Intended as an internal document. Good reading to understand the nature of rich democracies and the fact that the common people are not allowed to play a role."

Crisis of democracy

http://trilateral.org/download/doc/crisis_of_democracy.pdf

http://www.amazon.com/Crisis-Democracy-Governability-Democra...

Mar 15, 2016

"It's so disappointing to me to hear a quote like that from the President."

Then you need to get informed how democracy works...

Our brains are much worse at reality and thinking than thought. AKA we can be manipulated to believe things against our interest. Science on reasoning:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ

"Intended as an internal document. Good reading to understand the nature of rich democracies and the fact that the common people are not allowed to play a role."

Crisis of democracy

http://trilateral.org/download/doc/crisis_of_democracy.pdf

http://www.amazon.com/Crisis-Democracy-Governability-Democra...

Democracy Inc.

http://www.amazon.com/Democracy-Incorporated-Managed-Inverte...

Testing theories of representative government

https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/fi...

Protectionism for the rich and big business by state intervention, radical market interference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHj2GaPuEhY#t=349

Energy subsidies

https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/survey/so/2015/NEW07021...

Manufacturing consent:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwU56Rv0OXM

https://vimeo.com/39566117

Mar 14, 2016

"Wait so 'criticising government policies' is now grounds to classify a high school student as an extremist?"

They are afraid of the masses waking up see here:

Our brains are much worse at reality and thinking than thought. Science on reasoning:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ

The (mass surveillance) by the NSA and abuse by law enforcement is just more part and parcel of state suppression of dissent against corporate interests. They're worried that the more people are going to wake up and corporate centers like the US and canada may be among those who also awaken. See this vid with Zbigniew Brzezinski, former United States National Security Advisor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7ZyJw_cHJY

Brezinski at a press conference

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWTIZBCQ79g

Major powers, and imposing control over the awakened masses.

https://youtu.be/4usbR_kKCDs?t=397

Important:

http://williamblum.org/aer/read/137

Testing theories of representative government

https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/fi...

Mar 11, 2016

"But I'd much rather have this than every other social system, where the sociopaths fuck over the common people unchecked."

You already live in that society, you're just unaware of it.

The (mass surveillance) by the NSA and abuse by law enforcement is just more part and parcel of state suppression of dissent against corporate interests. They're worried that the more people are going to wake up and corporate centers like the US and canada may be among those who also awaken. See this vid with Zbigniew Brzezinski, former United States National Security Advisor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7ZyJw_cHJY

Brezinski at a press conference

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWTIZBCQ79g

Major powers, and imposing control over the awakened masses.

https://youtu.be/4usbR_kKCDs?t=397

Important:

http://williamblum.org/aer/read/137

First, our brains are much worse at reality and thinking than thought. AKA we can be manipulated to believe things against our interest. Science on reasoning:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ

"Intended as an internal document. Good reading to understand the nature of rich democracies and the fact that the common people are not allowed to play a role."

Crisis of democracy

http://trilateral.org/download/doc/crisis_of_democracy.pdf

http://www.amazon.com/Crisis-Democracy-Governability-Democra...

Democracy Inc.

http://www.amazon.com/Democracy-Incorporated-Managed-Inverte...

Testing theories of representative government

https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/fi...

Protectionism for the rich and big business by state intervention, radical market interference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHj2GaPuEhY#t=349

Energy subsidies

https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/survey/so/2015/NEW07021...

Manufacturing consent:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwU56Rv0OXM

https://vimeo.com/39566117

Mar 04, 2016

>This seems to hint at the problem. You (the left) conflate freedom and equality

Actually it's because most people are ignorant. AKA we can be manipulated to believe things against our interest. Science on reasoning:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYmi0DLzBdQ

"Intended as an internal document. Good reading to understand the nature of rich democracies and the fact that the common people are not allowed to play a role."

Crisis of democracy

http://trilateral.org/download/doc/crisis_of_democracy.pdf

http://www.amazon.com/Crisis-Democracy-Governability-Democra...

Democracy Inc.

http://www.amazon.com/Democracy-Incorporated-Managed-Inverte...

Testing theories of representative government

https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/fi...

Overthrowing other peoples governments

http://williamblum.org/essays/read/overthrowing-other-people...

Protectionism for the rich and big business by state intervention, radical market interference.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHj2GaPuEhY#t=349

Energy subsidies

https://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/survey/so/2015/NEW07021...

Intereference in other states when the rich/corporations dont get their way

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mxp_wgFWQo&feature=youtu.be...

Manufacturing consent (book)

http://www.amazon.com/Manufacturing-Consent-Political-Econom...

Manufacturing consent(vids):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwU56Rv0OXM

https://vimeo.com/39566117

Feb 13, 2016

Doubtful. Most aren't informed enough about how capitalist democracy actually works. They show that they don't really understand the history of imperialism, its relation to big corporations and what they do to people who effect 'their' profits and monopoly on government.

See: The Crisis of democracy

"Intended as an internal document. Good reading to understand the nature of rich democracies and the fact that the common people are not allowed to play a role."

http://trilateral.org/download/doc/crisis_of_democracy.pdf

Amazon book - The Crisis of democracy

http://www.amazon.com/Crisis-Democracy-Governability-Democra...

Princeton study - Do average citizens have any effect on policy/laws?

https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/fi...

Jan 15, 2016

According to Howard Zinn in "A People's History of the United States", the political party and electoral system was created as a facade to placate the poor from revolting against the wealthy. It worries me how much of this may still be true today: https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/fi...

Jan 10, 2016

Relatedly, recall that a key empirical study by the Princeton academics has this to say, " ... Multivariate analysis indicates that economic elites and organized groups representing business interests have substantial independent impacts on U.S. government policy, while average citizens and mass-based interest groups have little or no independent influence." [https://scholar.princeton.edu/sites/default/files/mgilens/fi...]